I hope this scares all readers as much as it scares me.....Lincolnwood, WAKE UP!!!

I'm looking forward to a local gun range and shop. It's not like it's an outdoor range with bullets flying.

@ z -

Hey man i like your thinking! Lets also bring in a strip club and casino, because hey, they're inside right!

This is a terrible idea and the way Lincolnwood is going about it smells so bad ....

Let's try it this way... What is the purpose of anyone making the argument that it's a bad idea to put a gun range blocks away from a school? Inherently people assume, "OMG bullets are flying near our kids." The point is that the gun range will be indoors, so its location, being mere blocks from a school, is irrelevant. (If the argument is about the dangers of a gun range.)

If the argument is about the patronage of a gun shop, that's another failure. The type of people you and I (and I assume you would agree) don't want having guns, are not coming to a Lincolnwood retail store to purchase them. They can't afford them and don't want them with purchasing guidelines from the Federal Government, serial numbers, and so forth. They'll still be buying them out of a trunk elsewhere.

So again, what's the problem with a gun shop and gun range? It's not a strip club with alcohol and debauchery. It's not a casino where people are gambling away their pay-checks and consuming cheap liquor. So where's the comparison and problem?

I wonder how many people know that Lincolnwood already has a gun shop. Been there for decades. Lots of problems right?

I wonder how many people know Linconwood had a gun range for decades. Again, lots of probelms right?

Lincolnwood zoning essentially bans gun shops. Shore was grandfathered in about 15 years ago with the understanding that they wouldn't move anywhere else. We voted on it back then. The two things that have changed are

1) the land purchase for the bike path - this deal seems to be rushed because it would fail even the less restrictive revised ordinance with the new bike.

2) the administration process that essential slipped it through.with little the legal minimum public notice. Other activities are highly publicized in newsletters, press releases etc. Only one interested party attended the hearing. In comparison many people attended the hearing regarding the bike path on the week before.

This comes down to a question of transparency. Lincolnwood citizen rose up and objected to the lack of transparency in the school district. They will do the same here. This issue could make the 2013 election high contentiousness and could result in a transition away from the alliance that has led the village for a generation.

Its my understanding that Shore Galleries brings in more sales tax revenue than all of the auto dealerships combined as they were always threatening to leave the village without tax breaks. Shore Galleries clientle is nearly exclusively local, state and Federal Law Enforcement officers.

If Shore is finally expanding with a range, they have my support 110% if you have a problem with bringing in more tax revenue to the village with a company that actively supports First Responders, then I'm curious why you're not privately working on the economic development group to bring more warm and fuzzy businesses to Lincolnwood?

"
Reply

Lincolnwood 2000

11:43 pm on Monday, June 18, 2012

Lincolnwood zoning essentially bans gun shops. Shore was grandfathered in about 15 years ago with the understanding that they wouldn't move anywhere else. We voted on it back then. "

Perhaps exactly the reason the ordinance was changed. Chicago changed theres as well due to some rulings indicating the disguised ban was illegal and instead of having it struck down and being left with nothing hoped to come up with something more reasoneable.

The tax statement is a complete fallacy. The auto dealership bring in the largest. The mall second. Lowe's third. I have no idea who is fourth.

Earl - Regarding policy - Except for the grandfathering it is essentially the same as Skokie

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/13128177-418/elmwood-park-gun-range-fined-111000-for-lead-violations.html

Who's in for purchasing a nice H & K 9 mm? Group buy?

Who is for voting out elected representatives who hide their actions?

We took back the school board and administration. It can happen again. The community is mobilized. Look what we did with the bInd referendum. We switched the majority of the board. We got every administrator out.

Why would you wish to ban people from having somewhere to practice and improve their knowledge and skills?

Isn't that what responsible gun owners are supposed to do?

Doesn't that make them better neighbors?

I support having a gun shop with a range in lincolnwood . I miss Gabby Hartnets , which had a bowling alley above and a gunrange in the basement below it .No problems occurred there and then , Most automobile drivers arent " idiots" most gun owners or shooting sports enthusiasts arent Idiots either . Why is it that everything a redblooded american enjoyed doing in the 50's 60's and 70's seems to be under attack ?

A lot of the same shrill voices here were also horrified that a liquor store was opening across the street from a park-the children will be killed running to buy a soda! That was actually brought up at a village meeting. Indoor gun range is a great idea-there is a lot of empty space in the industrial areas of L'wood & Skokie. I drove by Gabby Hartnett's many times when it had a gun range and never noticed any stray bullets flying by. I'm more likely to get run over by a soccer mom flying through a stop sign or red light than I am hit by a stray bullet from an indoor shooting range. Instead of trying to baby proof the entire world why don't you concerned parents start at home and teach your dull witted kids some common sense.

you gun supporters presume the rest of us want to have (or attract) guns in our neighborhoods. we don't.

I suppose it's the same as anti-abortionists who don't want to have an abortion clinic in their backyard.

tolerating a gun shop or a gun range means I tolerate guns in general. I don't. sorry, you can argue all you want but you can't change my mind on that.

I never made a statement for or against the gun range. My concern is transparency in government. When elected officials try to slip things by residents we lose trust in them.

Regarding concerns and ultimate approval of Lincolnwood Wine and Spirits. The Village was very open about the liquor store. Announcements of hearings were disseminated. Operating hours, shelve space, etc, were discussed and vetted.to the community. The business was required to meet code.

In gun shop case, a sign was placed in front of the business. There were no press releases or outreach regarding hearings. Significant variations in code were decided without public vetting.

Mayor Grant fostered in an era of transparent government. It is slipping away in Village government. We lost transparency with SD74 - It was a multi-year process. This year we took SD74..

If the community feels that the gun shop approval is the right action then so be it. Slipping it under the radar and later having to say it is too late to go back is not how to run government.

This is the type of issue that gets elected officials voted out of office.

"Earl Weiss"
<I haven't seen anyone make any such claim or presumption.>

To argue that life is ok with gun shops or gun ranges implies that life is ok with guns in general. I disagree with that implicit assumption.

<I haven't seen anyone try to change anyones mind.>
I suppose that you are inadvertently correct -- the entire nature of comment discussions on the internet can be largely boiled down to: "I am right, you are wrong, and oh btw, you are an idiot".

"JC

rz,

If you follow Earl's prolific trolling of the Patch, you will find that most of his arguments boil down to your quote. I tend to disregard the opinion of anyone who cannot differentiate between "there" and "their." Those who speak the most, and those who speak loudest, are often the ones saying the least.
""

JC -
Unlike you I don't disregard opinions. I accept that opinions vary. When the only support for an opinion is an ad hominem attack, (not directed to rz, apparently I have done something to offend JC, so he sees fit to engage in such rhetoric) then I give it less weight.

The residents and citizens of Lincolnwood need to be made aware of a proposal currently being considered by our village leaders to permit the establishment of a new, 16 lane gun and rifle range accompanied by a large retail and multiuse gun shop facility. The municipal, zoning and parking codes all must be changed in order to permit this. On June 6, the Planning Commission voted to approve this proposal by a vote of 5:1 with 1 absence. Concerned citizens may sign a petition against this proposal which is available at: http://chn.ge/no-guns
The new gun “megaplex” is to be 6950 Central Park, 4 blocks east of our School District 74 campus, just over 800 feet from Drake Park and directly adjacent to the new bike path along the old Union Pacific Railway property. Concerns about noise and lead pollution, resident safety, traffic and parking, impact on parks, location near the new bike path and the grants that fund these improvements, have not been addressed by village leadership. For example, the Plan Commission chose to overlook a discrepancy of almost 50 parking spots in approving this proposal. A staff recommendation of 70 spots for a site which currently has NO spots up to village standards was disregarded for a plan which allows for only 22 parking places.
A lack of transparency and clarity from our village leadership has clouded this very serious and difficult issue.

I can Not belive anyone would want to ban a shooting range. I am all for it. in fact all of you parents should take your kids to the range and teach them to respect understand and use a fire arm. I bet you have no problem letting them shoot and KILL people Via there video games. I don't get the logic. I took my nephew out to learn how to handle firearms he was 15 and had never touched a firearm of any kind. He thought it would be like all of his video games cool and fun bang bang bang. WHen he shot his first time the look on his face said it all. New found respect. on the way home he told me he was glad that he had experienced the real thing he knows it is not a game. Is education not the key? I am a law abiding citizen. I welcome a place to go and practice shooting.

Well, I suppose having a whole bunch of boarded up businesses all up and down our main streets is an acceptable alternative? This place has been in business for over 50 years, started when Lincolnwood was much smaller, and the MAyor was pro business. Look back in history if you will, Lincolnwood had at least 2 gunshops at one time; Shore's and Gabby Hartnett's which had a range. The 60's through the 90's brought great growth and change to town, and this place was a beautiful vibrant place to live in. Then the economy tanked. Look up and down Lincoln, Touhy and Devon. Nothing but vacants, forclosures (like the purple hotel) and blight. The village had better wake up on this. I have never in my years here seen the village look so run down! The gun shop wants to invest in our community, then I say we ought to allow this to happen and quickly before my taxes triple!.

I had the opportunity to see the gun training facility in Highland park with Mitch Shore and his architect/partner that is for police departments only. This is available to any Police/municipal department at a minimal cost. This facility had concrete walls, floor and ceiling. There are also steel deflectors on the ceiling to deflect stray bullets to the floor.
In this facility, there are still bullet marks in the concrete ceiling and bullet holes in the HVAC overhead.
Mitch's new range WILL NOT HAVE A CONCRETE CEILING! The architect/parrtner said to me they could not afford it. This new facility is NOT state of the art, unlike what they say, if a concrete ceiling is the state of the art. They will only have the wood roof, that is it.
Where will these ocassional stray bullets go that do happen to get around the steel plates, as they clearly do in HP?
Mitch also says that there is a need for this facility to train professionals, but there is a better designed range in HP already that is under-utilized! I go by often and the parking lot is empty.
This to me is about an opportunity for Mitch that with a skirting of good practice in safety design, and a quite changing in safety laws, will make him a lot of money. There are many other business in the area that pay way more than 70k in taxes, so that is a red herring.

Earl, thanks for the feedback. Actually, it is a red herring, and here is why. If you watch the last meeting about this, the 70k was stated as taxes gained from an amusement tax. When the mayor was asked if this tax would apply, he said he did not know if it would. its my guess that if the city has changed the laws for distances to schools and parks, and eliminated ALL of the parking requirements, that they will let Mitch go on paying amusement tax. Anyhow, the tax issue will not likely be decided before the zoning is approved.
Regarding concrete ceiling versus none, and the fact that bullets do hit the ceiling as per my onsite observation at a muncipally built range, I would say that it is better design to have a concrete ceiling versus none. do you agree?
Where do you think those stray bullets that clearly left holes in HVAC ducts along the ceiling would have gone? Yes, the would undoubtly lost some velocity going thru sheet metal and wood, but I would argue they would have enough velocity to travel out of the building. Is that acceptable for a range within 900 feet of 3 schools and a park?

ADD...stray bullets that clearly left holes in HVAC ducts AND chips in the concrete ceiling.
I did not take photos of this condition, but ask Mitch and his partner if there are not holes in the HVAC above the range and steel plates in the HP range. Ask if Tehe HP range has a concrete ceiling and if he will be doing the same.

The distance to the closest park is zero feet not 900 feet. The bike trail park was already approved and received grants. The village is in the design phase. The proposed shore gallery property abuts the approved bike trail.

If the business generates 70,000 in taxes, that would put it behind Kohl's, Carson's, Loeber, Grossinger, and Lowes. It would put it well behind the movie theatre that was rejected in Lincolnwood and was built at Village Crosssing. I don't have the numbers here, but it is certainly below future revenue at the purple hotel site.

NEW NEWS!!
This just in from the city, We have the agenda packet for tonight, and in it, the projec ted taxes from this business in amusment taxes, IF they apply them, which the mayor has said he does not know if they will, will be between $3,000 and 15,000. NOT 70k like everbody is saying. Please go online and find this yourself. This is a memp from Tim Weinberg village manager on July 5, 2012 sunjetc FIREAMS DEALERS SPECIAL TAX. This is a projection of taxes BY THE CITY based on income projections by Shore Galleries.
NOT 70,000!

NOT 70K.....
Here is a link to the exact page, the original on the LW site is prretty buried in the entire doc, but if you want more, go to the LW village site.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/82849018@N02/7591492728/in/photostream

I think you are blowing this out of proportion. Have any of you ever been to an indoor gun range? I would guess most of you hate guns and therefore know nothing about these facilities. They are quiet, you can't even hear it from the outside. Plus, gun owners are most responsible with their weapons. I am sure the owners will build the facility to be very safe. Currently living in CA, we have gun ranges everywhere and it hasn't ever been an issue.

You peaple do know that only peaple response able PEAPLE will be using this place why don't don't you liberal nut cases move someplace like another country.

Walter, you sound like a great American - open minded, sensitive and inclusive. I'm impressed. It is the liberal nut cases that you refer to who are trying to live in a safe society. I find your comments offensive and abusive of people that I assume you do not know. I do not know any of the people who have expressed their opinion for and against. I am not liberal or conservative, but practical and realistic and NO, I will not move to another country. In my opinion, we have way too many guns and violence in this country. I do not want a gun range next door to my home and I know that it would be those wealthy individuals who like to have an arsenal in their homes. However, you could move next door to one if you so choose.